CNX Podcast

Remote Renaissance: John Ho's Impact on Chiang Mai's Nomadic Scene S01/E03

• MC Ash Pemberton • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Join Ash in the latest CNX Podcast 2024 as he unravels the captivating story of John Ho, shaping Chiang Mai's digital nomad scene and exploring at the crossroads of life, work, and community!

Peeling back the layers of this enigmatic figure, John's tale is a masterclass in resilience, from a decade-long global journey in hospitality to the inception of Alt_ChiangMai. The episode offers insights into Chiang Mai's scenic charm, John's dreams, and the vibrant local culture.

Don't miss this portrait of the digital nomad's life, exploring the search for community, meaningful conversations, and a balanced work-life in the heart of Chiang Mai.

Tune in now for an exploration at the crossroads of life, work, and community!

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John:

Hey

Ash:

Okay everyone We have a new guest. It's Mr. John Ho Hello, John.

John:

Hi, thanks

Ash:

Hi. Thanks for coming in. Welcome to the show. Yeah, cool. Actually it wasn't just as simple as me inviting. but actually I've been told you need to get John on. You need to talk to John. And that's because you're a pretty instrumental figure in Chiang Mai's community. And that's one thing I'd love to dive into.

John:

I think it's a prank. Someone made a prank on me. I need to know this name now.

Ash:

Can I tell you what I know? I know that you studied cognitive science at UCLA. That's the the University of California in Los Angeles. I know you spent ten years refining your skills in the hospitality industry, that you've lived in Hong Kong, and that you're just an advocate, and you promote digital nomad remote lifestyles. There's more. You have a passion and you definitely have the skills for community building here in Chiang Mai.

John:

Yes.

Ash:

Yes. Yeah, for sure. There's more? Previously, you spent 13 years as a distributor with New Skin Enterprises. That's worked out well, right? It

John:

It taught me a lot.

Ash:

lot.

John:

It was a great learning curve of understanding what it means to be independent to be an entrepreneur. Yeah.

Ash:

I found out that you're the content manager at Martial Tribes, which is a huge online community for male fitness and martial arts. Was. Was. No more. Cool.

John:

Yeah. Unfortunately.

Ash:

okay. And that you're the host at remote, the remote trends.

John:

Yes.

Ash:

Yeah, I'd love to dive into that as well. Cause I don't actually know even what that means. I just picked that up from your LinkedIn profile. But I think there's probably no better place to start. And what I'd love to talk about and what I talk about as a common theme with everyone that comes onto this podcast is Chiang Mai people, places, events. I figure that's as good a place as any, and what better place to start than Old Chiang Mai? years

John:

I moved here six years ago. because my wife is from Chiang Mai, I met her when we were in Hong Kong.

Ash:

were

John:

This is 14 years ago.

Ash:

check

John:

my perception of Thailand was neutral. I didn't like it or I didn't dislike it. But I didn't know anything about Chiang Mai. So when we were dating, she said, Hey, come check out my hometown. And I said, sure, without any expectation. really. And then, I fell in love with it, there's a very interesting vibe. that's different from Bangkok, that's different from Phuket. People here are nicer.

Ash:

What do you mean by nicer? I think they're just

John:

I think they're just genuinely embracing whatever that comes at them. And don't make a fuss about it. They don't resist it. But they don't fake that they love it.

Ash:

it's

John:

So it's yeah, you guys are here. We're cool with that. there's less of that scamming vibe People here are less materialistic. So if you were to talk to anyone on the streets, they could be a millionaire and you wouldn't know because they don't like to show off. That's very Chiang Mai

Ash:

yeah.

John:

I liked it a lot, and we got married, we wanted to have kids, and so six years ago we decided to move here with that intention. And , I was still working for Marshall Tribes. building the online community, I was working at a co working space. And that was the time that I started knowing this digital nomad thing. Which it's a funny thing because I feel like I'm living in a bubble because in Chiang Mai, all the foreigners know about the digital nomads. And then when you go outside of Chiang Mai and you talk to people, they're like, Huh? What are they? What do they do? You For me, they're a very interesting bunch. And the reason why they choose Chiang Mai to stay, even though it's temporary, is because they like it here. The vibe is nice. It's also cheap. But I think it's more than just affordability. It's more, they feel like they can live here. I come from a hospitality background. I've worked nine years in, in different hotels when I was in Hong Kong, in events and catering. And I also, did the Marshall Tribes, which is online community building. so when I had this idea of, oh, we should have a space not only for digital nomads to work, but for them to live and hang out and do things. Naturally, there should be a lodging facility for it, right?

Ash:

a

John:

Yeah. I started talking to people, you know. pitching the idea, not having any expectations, and one of my very good friends from Hong Kong called me back and said, Hey, this co living thing you, want to do, it. you serious about it?

Ash:

And I

John:

told him, I can be,

Ash:

there's money,

John:

It's a brick and mortar business that requires quite a bit of capital,

Ash:

capital. And

John:

I didn't have that cash. I don't have all of it, and I think I was really fortunate to have a friend that trusted me, trusted vision that I was telling him and many other people, that was three years ago. We designed and built the first co living, co working space for digital nomads And that's how it got started.

Ash:

Awesome. Why add, why bolt on the living? Co working, would that not have just done, would that not have satisfied you? why did you want to build a residence?

John:

The co model, business model itself, is quite simple and very easy to duplicate. Essentially, all you need is some space. You put some tables and chairs, you can call yourself a co working.

Ash:

Yeah, I've seen a few like that.

John:

Hmm. Co living means a lot more in terms of what you need for operations. the service you're providing, and subsequently the revenue opportunity that you can get from it. don't think I would have a competitive edge if I were to just open a co working space. But then, just made more sense to have that as a whole package to provide. And I think that was also what the market needed in Chiang Mai. When I started, there were already five or six co working spaces, at least, but there was only one, co living space like digital nomads would also stay there, but it's more converted from a hostel and they don't really understand what community means. So when I was looking into this, I was like, huh, okay, I can have an edge. So

Ash:

And how have you built that community? What's different about yours?

John:

sweat and tears.

Ash:

There's truth in that, I can tell.

John:

The how there's multiple aspects to having a great user experience. When a digital nomad or a remote worker expects to have when they book a co living, co working space. My job was to make sure that. living inside would

Ash:

interact with

John:

know each other, interact with each other, and feel comfortable sharing ideas and doing things together.

Ash:

Are there specific rules? Is there a set amount of time that you can stay? Like, what's the kind of, terms for living?

John:

We set the minimum stay at one week. because we also want the non co livers to experience this, and oftentimes not a lot of people want to just go in and commit a full month to begin, with. so we wanted to give people that flexibility.

Ash:

And are there any specific rules or guidance that you give these people, or is it just who you'd expect? It's the people that would normally use a co working space and look for somewhere to live now they get all in one.

John:

We don't necessarily say there are rules. There are house rules, but they're common sense rules, right? You need to respect each other. You're not supposed to do illegal activities, and you just, act accordingly as if You're in any other space with other people being there. But, because co living, industry itself is quite new, and the people who tend to live in co living spaces are, have this mindset of sharing. And so when they come in, they're already primed that this is going to be a period that they need to socialize. They need to speak out or listen to other people's ideas and do something about it. right? There is that expectation on their behalf. For us we try to be flexible and if people don't understand what a co living space is we explain to them. it's not anything different.

Ash:

different. you call it a community first approach. What exactly do you mean by that? How do you develop that?

John:

If you look at conventional lodging facilities,, they're emphasized would be, comfort, privacy, service, you know, these, These terms community focus means, sure, we have comfortable mattresses. We have some sort of service, We have staff that would check in, check out on board, off board a person, But that's not what people expect. A community focus means they want to know what kind of activities are happening when they stay Who's going to facilitate these activities, that's the core. If they come in and there's a group of people, but they're just working by themselves. And there's no dinners, there's no skill share. There's no yoga, there's no going out for drinks, then it's not a community, it's just a bunch of people living in a space and doing their own stuff,

Ash:

stuff, right? Yeah. Jumping on a bit, what's the future of Chiang Mai look like How do you see Chiang Mai growing in the future? And how does that change? Or how does that knock on to alt Chiang Mai?

John:

we have 27 rooms,

Ash:

Okay.

John:

We're a spectacle in the whole ecosystem of Chiang Mai. But, we do Facilitate the process of remote workers coming to Chiang Mai and learning what the city is and providing an opportunity for them to also interact with local people. If the question is more Chiang Mai as a whole, think it's going to go big. more and more popular for foreigners to consider a place for retirement. to bring their kids for early education. longer stay,

Ash:

base

John:

a second base from home.

Ash:

is

John:

I think that's where Chiang Mai is going to. There's a lot of those happening already, but going to go bigger and faster.

Ash:

Yeah. And can families stay with you or is it only for single people?

John:

now the facility is predominantly for singles or maybe a few couples say,

Ash:

just before we move on from Chiang Mai I've paraphrasing some things that I've read on your social media. Where do you think people should go for vibrant local culture in Chiang Mai? Where's the hotspots? Where do you like to go to, to really pick up on some vibrant local culture?

John:

You have to go to coffee shops,

Ash:

to

John:

right? you have to you have to Akaama. You have to graph. go there, you have a very nice cup of coffee and you just do people watching

Ash:

think

John:

You have the younger crowd, you have the foreigners, taking photos. and I think that's a very nice touch point just to get a feel of, okay this is where the people would go to and have a cup of coffee and just enjoy their time being here. Yeah, so that's one place and then there's the music bars

Ash:

North Gate. Yeah. Up at East,

John:

Tapia East, Moments Noticed. These are all the places with all the local bands, perform on a daily basis they're very vibrant. Love it. You know, young people in Chiang Mai gives me this hope of, yeah, You can just enjoy life and not to worry about, when can I buy a house, or am I going to get acknowledgement from my parents that I have succeeded everyone's just trying to enjoy what they like to do. making a cup of coffee, playing the music they like to play.

Ash:

just one other question as a, a lead on from that. So we talked about like vibrant culture, but what about tantalizing street food?? do you eat on the street?

John:

Not as much these days because I found better hole in the wall. restaurants That are even more authentic. I just came. From a very local Chiang Mai restaurant. It's like a tin house, in the corner of a compound. There's no door sign. And it's funny because Every time I go, I'm bringing my, alt. and we're the only table that are non Thais. So the manager or the waiter would be like, can I take a photo of you

Ash:

Every time you

John:

Every time. This has happened for at least three times. And I'm like, why are you taking a photo of us? Where are you putting this? I don't know, but they want to do it, and we said, okay. foreigners are welcomed.

Ash:

Yeah, and this place just Thai food? Is there anything special?

John:

They have the best fish sauce steamed chicken.

Ash:

Okay.

John:

And it's not even a common dish in Chiang Mai, I feel like. It's so good. It's so

Ash:

So where exactly is the second construction site?

John:

By the Ping River, between the Iron Bridge and the Navarat

Ash:

Iron Bridge

John:

so you know where Dukes Yeah, so we're one alley down. And then it's just 50 meters inside of the small alley by the river.

Ash:

the small alley on the right. The first one is

John:

one is on the west side of the Old City. Inside the gate. The gate called Batu Sundok. So it's overlooking the Sundok

Ash:

the dock.

John:

Yeah.

Ash:

I know that you put on a lot of events at Alt 2. Can we now just talk a little bit about you as an event host and a facilitator? Because this is how I've heard about your skills. What do you do to encourage meaningful conversations amongst your members? What activities are you putting on? How do you stimulate this community?

John:

I call it a facilitation because I don't encourage, I don't say, Hey, you two sit down, this is the topic. You're going to talk about it. Go. It's not the way I perceived. perceived facilitating meaningful conversations. Oftentimes it's about giving them right space and the right tools to just make it happen. we have ice baths, we have yogas tomorrow we have a Michelin star chef coming over to do talk about longevity and food So try to do all sorts of activities, we can host that's just one part of it there's a community living and working throughout the day, and people start to know each other and they see these events happening, there's also this intention to also give back to the community. So then, sometimes I get people. Approaching me and say, Hey John, have this idea, or I want to talk about this topic. Can I use your Venue, and can I just tell the people here that maybe we can do this together? And I said, sure, yeah, do it., We don't charge money, and any topic goes, as long as it's legal. There can be five, there can 30 people. just talking about anything from AI to meditation, to relationships, to trauma exercise, to sometimes psychedelic experiences of whatnot, and get to pick and choose. And I think that's the beauty of having a place, not only you work in, but you live in. Because you're just there, you're present so long, During the day. So there's just more opportunity to see these people and say, Hey. Let's play a board game. and Naturally, people have good conversations. Whether it's meaningful or not, it's, it's up to them, but I'm just a facilitator.

Ash:

And you have a great space to host this and I'm on Facebook a lot and I see that you host an awful lot of events And I just keep my eyes on numbers because there's a lot of meetups that go on from Chiang Mai But yours seem to be quite popular, it seems like you get like 10s and 20s and 30s rather than some of the meetups which is single digits. And then when you're facilitating, that's really what I wanted to dive in at because I'm a wannabe facilitator, I'm an interviewer, I'm a podcast host, I'm an event MC. I'm still crafting my skill and I just wanted to dive in about how you see it and how you go about it. So when we first spoke, you actually told me that you admire Charlie

John:

didn't know this was going to be on, public, record.

Ash:

interviewing style.

John:

Yes. still admire the person's work. For sure. As controversial. as the is.

Ash:

not particularly controversial. So I'm not trying to draw comparisons between you and him. But just like, what do you like about him? What makes a great interviewer?

John:

It's almost an instinct when you're in front of a person,

Ash:

intention

John:

that you frame has to come from. The intention of making sure that, number one the interviewee is comfortable. Number two you're asking something that they really have an insight and they want to share about it. And number three you're giving them enough time

Ash:

space to,

John:

to to do it. I can't say I'm a professional. interviewer myself. I have done more than fifty or a hundred interviews myself, but I didn't study the art of it, hearing other people doing it, seeing them, how they frame the questions, the sequence of the questions being asked. Being careful of the words. you use. There's a lot of complexity in it. I enjoy studying it and practicing it and trying to be better at it. But there's so much in this art. And I myself love extracting information from the other person because for me that's the opportunity to learn. Because everyone has knowledge experience. Whether they want to tell you or not, or whether you're asking it in the right way that they will tell you exactly what you're looking for. Some people don't understand that requires skill. right? there's been people who have been doing this as a profession for decades. you have to Joe Rogan. Of course, everyone knows him.

Ash:

Rogan. Of course, everyone knows him.

John:

He has a style. he's a dummy. On many topics that talking to a specialist about. He's a very good reference to a lot of people who are also dummies on the topic. So then he doesn't pretend that he's knowledgeable he's challenging the ideas of the interviewee. he's just humbly asking like, explain to me as if I don't know anything about this, right? For audience, for some of the audience to be like, Yeah, I don't know anything about it. Can you just tell me what this means? So I like his style.

Ash:

Yeah.

John:

on the other side, you have lax Freeman and he's an interesting character because he's a computer science background person. But he goes so deep into the philosophy of everything. To a point that sometimes I'm like, it doesn't need to be that deep. it's a very simple question. Ask it the simple way so that person can answer you and like a very simple matter. that's his style. He likes to romanticize some people like it. Sometimes I find it not necessary for certain topics, that's Lex Freeman

Ash:

Yeah.

John:

Charlie Rose's is The first, I would say, person that I, studied and I tried to learn how he does it because he's, interviewing top leaders. Controversial figures. So every word he says, can trigger something that is unexpected, so he's very careful of it, and you can see how delicate he is with his subjects. and Sometimes you need that. Sometimes you need to be sensitive when you're talking about controversial topics.

Ash:

a little earlier you said, Oh, I've done between 50 and 100 maybe interviews. Oh, on what platform do you mean? Do you mean like a Old Chiang Mai where you're actually on stage with a subject matter expert and you're trying to draw that information? Do you mean 50 to 100 of those or is there another platform that you speak on?

John:

Prior to Alt, Chiang Mai having a physical event and a physical platform, there was also another app called Periscope. it's a live streaming app, And I was an active streamer, or Periscoper. That's what they say and I would do these live streams and I would go out on the streets in Hong Kong I would travel and I would just hold my camera and tell people like a tour guide and say this is what I'm seeing and blah blah blah, there's a segment of that Show if that I like to sit down People that I meet and say hey, do you want to do an interview? and I like to listen to people's stories that's a way for me to learn from them, but also a way to have an audience hear their story,

Ash:

So that's possibly where I read the stat that you have a global audience of over 60, 000 people and you've done over 5, 000 hours of stream time. Is that on that platform?

John:

A majority of the time is on that platform. I used to have another platform. I'm not active on it anymore. That's a Chinese speaking page, Facebook page. And I also did interviews in Cantonese.

Ash:

That's not the one called the remote trend.

John:

that one is called married to Chiang Mai.

Ash:

Married to Chiang Mai. Oh, I'd never heard of this.

John:

in Chinese, so yeah

Ash:

So married to Chiang Mai, is that a play on words

John:

Chinese the phrase is yep, Joey take mine, which is a very funny thing that my friends from Hong Kong used to joke about When you're marrying usually The girl would follow the husband's last name married to Chiang Mai or married to a That word in Chinese specifically means you're actually taking the wife's family name and my friends would tease me because I'm from Hong Kong and then I told them that I'm moving to Chiang Mai and then they were like, Oh, are you, doing that thing? Are you marrying into someone's family? So it was just like, okay, let's just use that name for the platform.

Ash:

marrying into someone's family. Okay, let's just use that name and i imagine that lot of them are multi trilingual if not bilingual. so how would they actually find married to Chiang Mai? Would they have to search in Chinese? Word of

John:

A word of mouth. really There is not a lot of media back then with chinese language talking life in Chiang Mai Because usually it's about tourism. It's about the places that you can go eat or drink or have fun. Whereas my content was more life in Chiang Mai. How do you get a visa? Should you buy a house? What is it like dating a Thai person? you know, What are the things happening here that you should pay attention to if you have the intention to moving here?

Ash:

I'm gonna ask you this is a real random and I can't even tell you where I got this from how not to open a restaurant in Chiang Mai Does that make sense to you?

John:

Just don't do it.

Ash:

Is this, talking about your experiences?

John:

a lot of people have this idea that it would be amazing to own a restaurant or a bar or a coffee shop in Chiang Mai. Yeah.

Ash:

It's a lifestyle.

John:

the dumbest idea.

Ash:

Why?

John:

It's the dumbest idea ever. If you enjoy food, go to a restaurant. If you enjoy being a host, cook at home. But if you want to do a business, owning a restaurant, that's the worst possible way to make money. sure, you love cooking or you love servicing, but in my opinion, right? It's not worth the effort unless you're not looking for the money, You're not chasing for the money, but 90 percent of the chance it's not going to be financially satisfying. So then you have to ask yourself, are you doing this for the money or is it for a passion? And if it's a passion, do you have to open a restaurant?

Ash:

Yeah.

John:

don't do it for the money.

Ash:

it fair to say that we could just drop Chiang Mai at the end of that statement? It's just don't open a restaurant. Is it specific that you've said that to Chiang Mai? You think that the restaurant coffee shop, think that statement is more for

John:

that statement is more for coffee shops. a bigger category than, you can consider coffee shop as one type of restaurant, but spent nine years of my career in hospitality. know chefs. know, service staff. if I were to open a restaurant, I would argue that I have a higher probability to succeed, as in I can make a profit. and not go bankrupt. And I still wouldn't do it.

Ash:

Okay.

John:

my co living space has a coffee shop and I just give my partner to manage it because I'm like, no, this is harder than running a co living space.

Ash:

Yeah.

John:

you don't know how hard a heart it is.

Ash:

Anyone listening, don't open your coffee shop. Don't open your restaurant in Chiang Mai. You don't need to. If you're into that, why not just come and visit some of our favourite spots. I just wonder if you could list a couple of like absolute gems that you love, that you would recommend to people here in Chiang Mai.

John:

You have to try it. Khao Soi Khun Yai, Khao Soi Mae Sai. You know, these are the famous ones. They have good Khao

Ash:

Sure. now you're giving me something new. You're giving me top quality restaurants where you don't have to wait.

John:

Yes. There's one that I would highly recommend. It's called Magnolia. It's also Michelin recommended,

Ash:

Okay, Magnolia. That one's brand new to me. Not heard of that one.

John:

heard of that one.

Ash:

Yeah, now we're talking. So that's chef James

John:

Yes, he's coming tomorrow at Alt to do an interview. Yeah. I really like his food, especially the second location.

Ash:

Okay. Not been to that one yet.

John:

You should.

Ash:

Yeah. He tells me actually on a weekly basis.

John:

James, if you're listening, yes.

Ash:

He will be. And maybe he should be on this pod actually. I'm sure James has got some funny stories to tell. Yeah. So Ikigai definitely. That's great.

John:

Man, there's so many.

Ash:

What about if I said Italian? Do you have a favorite Italian?

John:

Not particularly. their favorite, but I know why not is pretty decent. I like it.

Ash:

Everyone says, why not?

John:

Because it's a Neiman.

Ash:

I know, Amedeo. Everyone loves your

John:

But then I'm with my Italian food, So I can't find something that I'd be like, yes, you have to go there. They have the best pasta or pizza or something like that. But why not? It's decent. Yeah.

Ash:

Yeah. And it's just friendly and an enjoyable experience.

John:

Italian friends would also argue that Adirec is not real Italian pizza, but Adirec is pretty decent in terms of their pizza. See the thing about restaurants in Chiang Mai, I feel like it's more homey. it's comfort food. I like that. Oh, Black Kitch. Black Kitch is one of the special ones here. Have you heard of

Ash:

no, I'm glad that you came up with that one. Cause I've, I don't know that what I do is I will just put all of these into Google maps

John:

Yeah, It's a small private kitchen. The guy is very good at fermentation.

Ash:

Okay.

John:

Yes, so he sources local ingredients and he, tries different things on it and it's pretty funky.

Ash:

Sounds great. And then just final one any particular favorite Japanese? Like, , what do I say , to people that come to Chiang Mai? It's like, I actually haven't ever been to Japan, but I imagine the quality of the Japanese food here in Chiang Mai is pretty damn good. At about a tenth of the price.

John:

The price is super Reasonable here I love to bring people to this gear like izakaya place Senmai ramen is really decent They have two branches right now and then there's Misora, all you can eat sushi for 6.

Ash:

Okay, and that's fresh,

John:

fresh, right?

Ash:

It's good.

John:

good. I mean, my chef friends would say it's decent. Yeah.

Ash:

it's

John:

For the price, 6. 99, that's like 20 bucks? USD, Exactly. it's ridiculously cheap. But it's decent.

Ash:

Huh.

John:

Yeah. And so there's a lot of Japanese restaurants here. and they're not bad at all, but then I also travel to Japan, and I love Japanese food, and then I'm going to be, like, knowingly picky about it.

Ash:

But we do okay. Awesome. Thank you for your insights on Chiang Mai. can I just throw some quick fire questions at you? the questions are going to be super quick. How old are you?

John:

Forty five.

Ash:

45. You look good for 45. Are you married? Kids? Cool. Which school?

John:

place called Ban Koon Mae. It's a Thai school.

Ash:

I've heard of it. Yes. Yeah, happy with it. Love it. Good, How's your work life balance? Not

John:

Not great.

Ash:

mean, better

John:

Better than Hong

Ash:

What was it like in Hong Kong? Because you were in the, hospitality industry, so you were working crazy

John:

Yeah.

Ash:

And were you ever an entrepreneur or self employed in Hong Kong? Yes. You were?

John:

Yes. But it was still crazy. Just very Hong Kong, it's all about efficiency, Here, there's a better balance of it, definitely. But, I am still very busy. People tell me I need to slow down.

Ash:

earlier on you said, yeah, and people can come and they can use my space for free, which is just wow, that's incredibly generous. My quick fire question is, what pays the bills?

John:

The venue that you want to host an event that provides value to the community, that's for free. Obviously, if you're living, if you're booking a room, if you're paying for a working desk that, you need to pay money for

Ash:

I get that. And stumbled on, oh, restaurants, coffee shops, not highly profitable here. Is co living and co working profitable? I wouldn't

John:

I wouldn't say it is the most profitable business, even. we're making money we're covering the bases, I wouldn't get filthy rich doing this. No, not a chance. a very small community and there's also other co living spaces. And so one resident That checked in into my place, showed me a message that, was a conversation between him and another co living operator. he was asking something about the facilities, and I think that the resident was a little picky. And, I don't know, I'm just assuming this. But, then operator, who I know, said, you should go to John's place, at Old Chiang Mai, I think you would like it there, he's a billionaire in from Hong Kong.,

Ash:

not

John:

I wouldn't be in Chiang Mai if I were.

Ash:

Okay, couple more quickfire ones. What was your first ever job?

John:

Telephone operator at my secondary school.

Ash:

How old were you?

John:

15.

Ash:

Okay,

John:

was no cell phones back then. Yeah.

Ash:

Telephone operator.

John:

We have priests living upstairs of the school cause it was Catholic school. So you still have a main line for people to call in and then you transfer the lines to individual rooms.

Ash:

Describe your style.

John:

Friendly, but serious.

Ash:

I think that's pretty much it. Yeah. You're pretty grounded. You're pretty straight. Yeah. Okay. I'll take that. That was two words, but we'll take it. Have you ever gone viral?

John:

Not that I would consider. No, I hope not.

Ash:

What's the best advice you've ever received?

John:

received? this will sound like a cliche, but the best advice I've ever received is my dad and from the Bible. Don't judge. Because I to judge.

Ash:

That's actually one of the things that I would say I like most about Thailand. That there's a lot of non judgmental people that see foreigners doing whatever they're doing, being themselves and they just don't feel the need to go up and tell that person exactly what they think of them or their actions. think that's one of the best things about living here. Whereas the flip side of that, for Europe, but definitely in America, people love to tell you what they think of you. That's

John:

That's why we're in Asia, right?

Ash:

I think so.

John:

In order to judge, you have to be knowledgeable and you have to assume you know everything. who Knows everything? And if you don't know everything, your judgment might be wrong. what is the point of judging?

Ash:

what brightens up your day on a daily basis? Going

John:

back to alt, seeing the people off their phones and just talking and

Ash:

smiling. Oh, cool. That's not a policy though. That's just a culture that you're trying stamp onto alt Chiang Mai.

John:

I just find joy Seeing it when it happens, which happens every day, a lot, even when I'm not there. that brings me the most satisfaction being a business owner.

Ash:

I think it's healthy to just, to build relationships with

John:

victim of,

Ash:

and not

John:

victim social media myself I have a lot of screen time. But I don't think it's healthy to build relationships with these tools and not have, Physical. a different layer when you're talking face to face, when you're in the physical space and smelling, hearing, looking, All those different senses contributes to the conversation that you cannot get from, through a device. I don't

Ash:

a device.

John:

in 100 years when technology is superiorly advanced, but at this moment of time it way better to have real personal interaction what we're doing right

Ash:

And I'm

John:

and I'm facilitating it.

Ash:

promoting community building, especially here in Chiang Mai. And I know you put on so many events. So for anyone listening, what's the best way to find old Chiang Mai? What's the best way to come and to get invited to some of the events that are many of the events that you host?

John:

Just come through the doors. Yes! Google us. Alt underscore Chiang Mai and you'll find us.

Ash:

you'll find us. Yes, and

John:

and of course we have Facebook, we have Instagram. You know, You can see the photos. You can read can only truly experience community when you're in the space. them. You by. Have a cup of coffee. Buy a day pass. Book for a week or a month. And yeah. John, it's been an absolute pleasure. so much. Enjoy this.

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MC Ash Pemberton

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